The German Road Network Is Kaputt

"Mark - Sixpots None The Richer" (marklinde) 05/22/2014 at 21:28 • Filed to: Germany, Kolbenfresser, Infrastructure

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(The sign reads “road damages” and someone attached “for roughly 30 years now” underneath it. Picture by !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Bitching and moaning about the government is a preferred pastime all over the world. Whether I read a text on Jalopnik or in a German newspaper, the taxes we hard working citizens have to hand over to our leaders always seem to be wasted and/or missing everywhere because of negligent incompetence or even barely concealed viciousness.

For us Jalops the condition of the road network is a common topic. From reading articles and your comments I get the impression that the roads in the US suffer a lot from potholes, rotting bridges and other signs of decay while the government is paralysed by shutdowns and unable to provide more funding.

So what’s going on in Deutschland?

Some of you might know that Germany is in a remarkable situation. While a lot of countries still struggle to recover from the recession and especially states in Southern Europe are desperately trying to control their national deficits with sometimes drastic measures, our finance minister Schäuble was able to present the first balanced budget since the late 60s this year because the German economy is (slowly) growing and unemployment is low thus raising the tax revenue to a record high.

I’m not going into the witchcraft and monetary trickery involved to calculate the budget and whether the estimated numbers are actually real or not. Let’s assume here that the balanced budget is a fact.

So life is peachy and driving a smooth joy over here, you might think.

Paradoxically nobody is building statues of our beloved leaders though. In fact, the balanced budget isn’t big news, and the government around Angela Merkel – although fairly popular for reasons beyond me – wasn’t able to really profit from this achievement yet. The problems Germany and the European Union are facing these days - and in the near future for that matter - are too severe to unconcernedly celebrate this historic success. The Germans also didn’t forget that in the last five years the government had to loan an unprecedented amount of money to stimulate the economy, save the banks and the Euro all at once. So everybody is anxious that the balance might be a short-lived moment, and the promise of a positive national budget within the next two years is just as hollow as almost every election campaign drivel we heard before.

And then there’s something else. What are “we” supposed to celebrate exactly?

Despite the record high tax revenue – of course being a nuisance by itself for us hard working citizens - the balanced budget wasn’t possible without reducing expenses.

“A penny saved is a penny earned”, is a phrase we all know too well. But a government isn’t about earning money.

Don’t get me wrong now. I’m being deliberately simplistic in my analysis. We can all see what happened in Greece when the national debt reached a critical level. However, this is not the place to debate it. Let’s just say for now that there’s a limit to making debts somewhere, and even though Germany luckily didn’t reach it in the past, it’s probably for the best not to find out where exactly it is.

So the national budget is a complicated affair and spending was cut more or less everywhere. But this being Oppo I will - like a true lobbyist – ignore those facts completely and just bang the drum for the road network in this article.

I will also overlook that large parts of the road network are financed by the federal states and smaller municipalities too. The 16 federal states and countless municipalities have varying budgets themselves and some of them are in way bigger financial turmoil than the national government. But to make things easier here and to completely lose my credibility, I will unrealistically assume that those subdivisions have roughly comparable budgets to upkeep their share of the roads and fail miserably at doing so.

In every country the transport infrastructure is the fundament on which the society and economy is based. Germany is - or was - in the comfortable position of having a well developed and dense road network that was largely build about 40 years ago. In Eastern Germany parts of the infrastructure were (re-)build after the reunification and are therefore more modern. This fairly efficient network in the densely populated heart of one of the most important economic regions in the world is partially making up for some of Germany’s shortcomings like for example the lack of natural resources.

To see what our “rolling economy” actually looks like watch the video of fellow Opponaut Reborn Pyrrhic.

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I’d also compare the infrastructure to a savings bank book. You invest money to bear interest and sometimes you’re able to draw out money when you’re really in need. Our different governments drew out money for quite a long time now.

In this case the phrase mentioned above could be changed to: “A penny saved is a penny lost!”

This was noticed early and pointed out by the media in the past, but because the road network is huge and was in good shape about two decades ago a bit of patchery here, lowering the speed limit there and some bypassing worked miracles. And although the number of road works causing jams were annoying for sure, they were negligible in the bigger picture. The ever increasing traffic was still moving after all and you can always fix the roads properly later, right?

The result of that thinking is that the government is saving/earning money while the roads are deeply in debt by now.

I read a bunch of articles on varied websites about the topic. When it comes to a statistical analysis of the state of the road network it’s important to stress that the questions and persons asked in the articles were differing. And as it’s always true with media coverage: The stronger the language and pessimism of an article the better. So be aware that there’s sensationalism and a bit of “Top Gear science” going on. I also tried to find numbers that are up-to-date yet sometimes they refer to different years from 2011 to 2013. Since the condition of the roads didn’t change significantly in those years I will throw them together as I please.

So take my summary with a pinch of salt. It’s about context and the grand scheme of things, and the consensus I found after reading various articles is the same.

The German road network is kaputt!

“Wait a minute”, I feel you are thinking at the moment. “When I was travelling though Germany the roads were quite good. Why do you create this artificial drama?”

Due to the varying ways they are financed I will distinguish three types of roads in my analysis. The smaller municipality roads, the state roads (Landstraßen) financed by the 16 states and the federal roads (Bundesstraßen and Autobahnen) maintained and build by the national government.

Your observation about the quite good roads is spot on. While visiting Germany you were mostly using the federal roads, I suspect. Because of the traffic volume they have to handle and the international responsibility they have to fulfil in Central Europe, they enjoy a high priority when the budget is distributed. And like I mentioned beforehand the monetary situation of the national government is quite healthy.

Still, about 20% of the Autobahn – or 2,560km – are in a “bad” or even “very bad” condition.

The Bundesstraßen are worse. About 35% of them are in “bad” or “very bad” shape. We are talking about 13,650km here.

And the reason why you didn’t notice this is simple. Road damages are not only indicated by road works, patches or potholes. Those are sometimes rather superficial scratches. But like the dwarves in Lord of the Rings our government dug too deep and woke up the demons of structural damage and material fatigue.

If you are driving through Germany and you aren’t familiar with a place you don’t notice where speed limits were lowered in the past or trucks aren’t allowed to drive anymore. So while those roads may look okay, they sometimes are in dire need of a complete rebuild. The situation of the federal roads is critical and it only gets downhill from here.

Varying from 22% in Lower Saxony – in Bremen it’s 21%, but it’s a very small city state - to 64% in Saxony-Anhalt, about 50% of the 86,600km of state roads are also in „bad” or worse condition.

There is a lack of data concerning the 541,000km of smaller municipality roads since it seems to be too difficult to gather conclusive information about them. But if you were to look through some local papers you’ll be able to find roads in catastrophic states quite easily.

Two examples:

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So somehow I feel there is no reason for optimism when it comes to the status of those smaller roads.

The bridges are the weakest link of the infrastructure, and you can’t see what they look like inside and underneath when you are passing over them. Sometimes lanes are closed for trucks helping you to assess a bridge’s actual condition.

They were mostly constructed about 40 years ago with a lot less traffic in mind and are now overstrained like a press car in the hands of Chris Harris.

35% of the 67,000 bridges in Germany are in need of rehabilitation and 15% of them have to be replaced in the near future since they are beyond repair long before their predicted lifespan ended.

46% of the Autobahn bridges are in a bad condition too which shows you the effects of the increasing freight traffic on them.

Those statistics are dramatic. I won’t bore you by writing down estimated numbers with a lot of zeros behind them here because I wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for that. But you might be able to understand now that there is a lot of money needed to fix those issues in the near future. So the next time when the world envies our finance minister and the German success in general just remember that it’s all relative.

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Arben72 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/22/2014 at 15:45

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Man, I wish my state was in the position about failing superficial cracks. The only potholes that get repaired here are the ones that can swallow whole wheels. The only bridges without rust here are the ones built in less then a year.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > Arben72 05/22/2014 at 15:54

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So where do you come from?

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Arben72 05/22/2014 at 16:06

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Sounds like Pennsylvania to me.

Arben72 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/22/2014 at 16:12

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The land of bent wheels and control arms. Some call it Illinois though.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > Arben72 05/22/2014 at 16:14

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Could be Berlin too...

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/mediacenter/fo…

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/22/2014 at 16:20

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I lost a tire to potholes this year for the first time ever, and FIVE fiends also had tire-killing/wheel-bending incidents with potholes this spring, and my boss destroyed the left front strut (and tire) of his Bently Turbo R on one last week. We have many bridges that are now cut down to one lane with stop lights to regulate traffic flow because there is no budget to rebuild them and they have had to reduce loading. Guard-rails are falling into rivers, pavement is ENTIRELY MISSING in chunks the size of pool tables along major state highways... it's so bad the guys in the Bro trucks don't look so stupid anymore.

and on top of that we have mud season to deal with...

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/22/2014 at 16:29

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I'm speechless

Where is that exactly?

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/22/2014 at 16:33

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Vermont, USA. The picture of the Volvo XC70 in the mud is on a road I used to live on.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/22/2014 at 16:36

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Nonono, you are fooling me here. This looks like a third world country with a civil war raging on for about a decade in it... ;-)

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/22/2014 at 16:57

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Wish I was, since I drive a Fiesta ST...

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/22/2014 at 17:00

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Okay, this beats "very bad" in Germany every day...

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/22/2014 at 18:05

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some pics I took on my commute home tonight... I did have to go out of my way for the bridge, but that's still less than 5 miles from the center of the largest, and one of the richest, metropolitan centers in the state...

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/22/2014 at 18:17

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Birddog > Arben72 05/22/2014 at 20:50

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Being from Illinois definitely qualifies you to talk about budgets. The mighty Quinn is doing some wonderful things there!

I spent nearly 40 years in Crook County. When I had the chance to get out and move to Iowa?

I ran like my ass was on fire in my head was catching.

Arben72 > Birddog 05/22/2014 at 21:00

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They at least they care about cook county. Try Central Il, they couldn't care less. I can't wait to get out of here.

M54B30 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/22/2014 at 21:41

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Being stationed in Germany was the first time I ever drove through the same construction zones for years. Not just some - all.

They also had a lot of bombs being discovered during the construction process, o there is that.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > M54B30 05/22/2014 at 22:00

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Yupp! The time it takes to repair a stretch of the Autobahn here is ridioulous...

Almost exactly four years ago a 500kg WW2 bomb exploded here in Göttingen while specialists were trying to defuse it. It was a huge blast. The windows of our house were vibrating and I felt the shock wave sitting at the same desk I'm sitting now. The bomb exploded 1.6 miles away...

Sadly three people died and six were injured. It's tragic that over 60 years after the war ended people are still dying because of it.

M54B30 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/22/2014 at 22:06

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they found one in a Spargel field maybe 500m from my old house (where my parents still live) near Darmstadt about a year ago. It's also less than 1000m from the Dagger Complex, where a lot of anti-NSA protests have been happening. My dad said it's been a lot of fun going to work there lately.

I remember the construction near Aschaffenburg/Wurzburg on the A3 coming to a stop when they found a bomb. Crazy.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/22/2014 at 22:09

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Lol, what you call "very bad" in Germany, we call "perfectly fine" in New Jersey. Shit my wife has started to use the Land Rover (with 265/75 R16's, 2 inch lift and heavy duty suspension) to drive to her job in Trenton NJ because her 3 series just isn't built to handle those types of roads (and I use the term road very loosely). My Jag has had all four rims and both rear struts bent to a point where I needed to fix them.

Also I was in Bremen about 6 years ago (my mom is from Oldenburg originally and still has family in the area) and the roads seemed fine to me. Then again I had a different definition of what "fine" is lol.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 05/22/2014 at 22:12

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Yeah, That's why I was careful...

And as it's always true with media coverage: The stronger the language and pessimism of an article the better. So be aware that there's sensationalism and a bit of "Top Gear science" going on.

cabarne4 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/22/2014 at 23:30

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While the German Autobahn is no Schlaraffenland, it still beats the US system. In a study from 2006, about 12% (about 70k out of about 600k) of our interstate bridges were "structurally deficient" — damages reduce the bridge's ability to support the vehicles.

http://hosted.ap.org/specials/inter…

The above link goes to an interactive map from the Associated Press. Mouse over a state to get number of bridges, number of structurally deficient bridges, and percent deficient. Mind you, this is from 2006. Not much has been done between now and then to address the issue, but it has gotten worse!

Now, this is just bridges. Now for the road conditions:

This is a main road in Jackson, MS after a small rain. This wasn't even the deepest part.

I drove on a road today with a tree growing in the middle of it! The trailer I was towing was 8.5 feet (2.6 meters) wide — the widest you can tow without a special permit. In order to go around the tree, I had to put the driver side wheels into the ditch, and the passenger side wheels actually drove up the tree a little bit! While this is a bit of an extreme example, this is a residential street. There are mailboxes along the edge, and people even had trash cans out by the street — so there's regular mail and trash service.

No idea what I would do if there was traffic the other way. The trailer was about 36 feet / 11 meters long, so not too easy to get down the road.

I can find more pictures online, but across America roads have issues flooding, falling apart, sinking into the ground, etc.

This was just a few weeks ago as well:

550F2 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/23/2014 at 03:22

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True story, although in their defence they do put up signs everywhere to warn you in Germany. This is especially helpfull if you ride a motorcycle. In regards to the smaller local roads, it makes a lot of sense to not fix them. What's the point in making a prefectly smooth road, and then adding a speed bump every 200 metres? Might as well keep the potholes right?

The roads here in the Nethelands are in pretty good shape, but our economy isn't as good as yours. It's Switzerland that always amazes me with the quality of the roads. Too bad you're only allowed to drive very, very slowly there.

The solution for countries like Italy is pretty simple. Every unemployed person should be made to work on the roads to recieve his welfare check. The intitial cost of buying a few million spades and concrete will soon be recovered by the amount of tax recieved.

Cé hé sin > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/23/2014 at 07:25

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Wasn't there a guy killed by a WW1 bomb recently? You could say a bomb that's still live and dangerous a century on must have been a well designed one.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > Cé hé sin 05/23/2014 at 08:02

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This might be true, but I didn't hear the story. Since the fighting was mainly in France and Eastern Europe, there are virtually no duds from WW1 found in Germany. But especially in France experts assume that they will be defusing unexploded bombs, shells and granades from WW1 alone for up to 700 years...

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > cabarne4 05/23/2014 at 08:16

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Everything is relative. ;-)

Your road network is 6,506,204km long while 317,000,000 people live in the US. Germany has 80,000,000 citizens and our road network is "just" 644,480 long.

So you have to finance a network that is ten times larger with only four times as many tax payers. And because taxes are a direct way to the hell you know as socialism ;-) , the tributes to your leaders are lower than in Germany.

The results are very obvious when you look at some of the replies here.

cabarne4 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/23/2014 at 08:33

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I'll at least accept that the Stay is worse over there. Here it's only bad during morning and evening commuting hours in major cities. There, you have Stay even between major cities, and also weekend Stau!

The post you linked to with the video on the A6 — I had a good laugh when he described the trucks as like two elephants. "Elefantrennen" is definitely one of my favorite words in German.

When I visited Germany the Stay wasn't so bad. Traffic was a little slow leaving Frankfurt to the north (on a Friday evening), but cleared up pretty quick. Had a little slowdown with construction but otherwise didn't get much traffic the rest of the trip. We avoided rush hour and didn't drive much though. When I'm back next summer I might not be so lucky.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > cabarne4 05/23/2014 at 08:43

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Yes, like I wrote: The roads were build with a lot less traffic in mind. A part of the reason why the roads are in a bad condidtion is that new roads had to be build or old ones had to be upgraded to solve some of the traffic problems. But there isn't enough money to build and maintain roads simultaneously. It's as simple as that.

And Frankfurt is the German commuter capital so the traffic is especially bad there during rush hours.

Cé hé sin > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/23/2014 at 09:02

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Here we are. It was in Ieper, or Ypres as we still prefer to call it.

cabarne4 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/23/2014 at 12:00

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Yeah, it's basically the same story here, but like you said 10x the roads, 4x the people, and LESS taxes / person. Basically all major cities are the same story: Designed decades ago, not for the amount of traffic seen today.

Granted, Germany had problems immediately after reunification, where the Bundesstraßen in East Germany had to immediately be brought up to Western specifications. USSR was not known for high quality roads, and most of them had not been really maintained since just after WW2. So most of your road budget has gone to there.

That said, I love the detour system along the Autobahn — that's something we don't have here. For anyone reading, Germany has pre-planned detour routes along stretches of Autobahn. They're well marked. Odd numbered detour routes go one direction, even numbered detour routes go the other. So you would get off at say "detour 20", and follow all "detour 20" signs, and they'll eventually guide you back to the Autobahn at a later exit. If it's still bad Stau there, just follow all the "22" signs until you get to the next exit again.

Stef Schrader > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/24/2014 at 10:30

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Man, between the roads and the rust, any car from the north is an automatic DO NOT WANT.

ThePro > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 10:58

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Lol? Those roads aren't even half bad. I've seen some huge potholes in Washington DC, and if you go a bit north to Baltimore, almost 60% of the ''roads'' are more pothole and bumps than actual road.

SkarTisu > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/24/2014 at 11:04

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Holy balls

SlowerTrafficKeepRight > 550F2 05/24/2014 at 11:26

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I love this idea.

MTY85 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 11:27

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Germany doesn't have the money to repair their roads? Where TF is all the money going from the absolutely catastrophic gasoline taxes they charge over there, then?

ktonl > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/24/2014 at 11:29

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I can see why Subarus are selling so well now.

shortyoh > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/24/2014 at 11:40

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That bridge looks like it is in fantastic shape compared to some I know. There's one I drive over fairly regularly that has a couple 2 ft diameter holes open up each year. Not just a simple pothole, mind you, but one down through the asphalt, and through the concrete all the way past the rebar.

Or there's the I-270 bridge over the Mississippi River in St. Louis. If you look at the google streetview, you can see chunks of pavement in the bridge that have been repaired, along with the concrete the guardrails are anchored into.... Doesn't look too bad, right?

Well, those patches are over areas where for several YEARS you could see straight through potholes in the road deck to the river below. I guess I shouldn't even call them potholes -apart from the rebar, the pavement was simply not there.

shortyoh > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 11:42

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I'd wager that they repair it properly, though. Here, we have a nasty habit of using shallow base material for the roadway, leading to premature failure. That, plus we use substandard contractors far too often. They can come through and put new asphalt down in a week or two, easily... but a year or two later it looks like it did before the repair..

shortyoh > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 11:44

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True story - when I moved to Michigan some 15 years ago, AAA (the Automobile Association of America) reported that the AVERAGE vehicle in Michigan suffered ~$1,600 worth of damage every single year from what they called "collision with road" (ie, road damage).

Dormobile > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 11:47

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It will take a disaster to wake people up. In the 1980s, a bridge collapsed on an interstate highway in Connecticut. When I was frequently driving through CT on my way to Boston from 1987-1992, it seemed like the state was in the process of rebuilding their entire highway network. The completed sections were very nice. I wonder how it is today?

My German colleagues are envious of the mostly good and fairly empty Interstates we have here today in Arizona.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > MTY85 05/24/2014 at 12:02

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That is the question really. And also don't forget the the taxation for car ownership and the truck toll money.

I will try to answer this and describe the solutions our politicians are planing in another article

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > Dormobile 05/24/2014 at 12:03

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Let's hope the politicians will skip the desaster-scenario.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > shortyoh 05/24/2014 at 12:04

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Yeah, I will not deny that the conditions in the US are worse from what I see in all your replies.

jimz > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 12:04

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it's a bit exaggerated because the "mud" pics are of unpaved rural roads. There's practically no way to keep unpaved roads from looking like hell after an especially severe winter and the spring thaw.

Detroit (where I live) is somehow notorious for bad roads, but when you have something like last winter's "freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw" over and over, combined with the amount of truck traffic, well, yer gonna have damage.

SpontaneouslyCombustible > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 13:09

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You know what the absolute worst part is?


Roads in that condition are not all that uncommon in this country. There's about a mile long stretch of road a few minutes away from my house(A suburb of Houston that isn't entirely ghetto) that I just simply do not drive on, ever, for any reason, at all because it's so bad.

"Richest country in the world" though.

seriouslywhyiskinjastillterrible > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/24/2014 at 13:18

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In Perth, Australia, I'm struggling to remember when I last saw a decent pot hole. Thanks Jinping.

stoopit > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/24/2014 at 13:20

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If you want well-groomed boulevards, move to where they have well-groomed boulevards, stop trying to bring them to where they aren't and people can still go to escape them and don't try to do so in AWD cars, not the requisite 4x4.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > shortyoh 05/24/2014 at 13:24

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We have bridges like that too, though many of them got at least well patched after hurricane Irene wrecked the state and we got a ton of federal aid money. Several years ago there was a bridge in Montpelier (the state's capitol) that was closed after a pedestrian fell through one of the holes and into the river. -The one in my pics: if you look at the near-right corner, that's where the span is sliding off the abutment and separating from the adjacent road. always confidence inspiring to drive over.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > ktonl 05/24/2014 at 13:25

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No kidding!

The Devil Drives a Mustang (Rotary Pending) > Cé hé sin 05/24/2014 at 13:27

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To be fair, a bomb that failed to detonate when intended and then sits for nearly a century only to go off at the drop of a hat was not in fact well designed. A well designed one would have gone off when intended. Of course, given the millions of units of ordinance that were deployed during that detestable conflict, for a thousand to not have gone off represents a failure rate of less than 1%. As an engineer, I might call that well designed.

Bloqs3 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 13:29

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i hereby solemnly swear not to insult or whine about the roads in France and Switzerland. I do come from a third world country so I know what extremely bad road is like, but this article makes me think I should be graceful for the roads I get to drive on!

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > jimz 05/24/2014 at 13:37

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Well, in Vermont we have a huge percentage of our network still unpaved, and there are towns with NO PAVED ROADS within the bounds of the municipality. Maybe it's true that much of the rest of the USA doesn't have to deal with this, but we do.

Vic-in-Norway > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 13:40

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I grew up in Alaska in the 70's and 80's... Talk about bad roads. At a certain stage you get to the point where signs like the one below mean nothing.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > stoopit 05/24/2014 at 13:53

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My friend, you know not of what you speak. That Volvo shot is in Stowe. The road in question is so loaded down with multi-million dollar homes you would shit yourself if you saw the tax revenue for that 1-mile stretch. This is not "escape" this is high-end residential, and these are the roads there. Its true, Vermont has a rustic charm that is a bit unique in the USA these days, and is perhaps worth preserving at the expense of some modernity. But don't try to tell the couple with the matching Bentley Continental GTs just down the hill from that mud pit that they should be driving jacked up 4x4s...

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > Vic-in-Norway 05/24/2014 at 14:13

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This reminds of something...

Vic-in-Norway > Vic-in-Norway 05/24/2014 at 14:14

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Yep, railroad spikes in the road. If you keep your eyes sharp while driving this 62 mile section of road you WILL see them. Please stop to pick them up and either chuck them to the ditch or keep them... free souvenir!

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > ThePro 05/24/2014 at 14:18

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It's all relative. ;-)

Vic-in-Norway > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 14:23

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Ah yes, we have our own version of that too:

MTY85 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 14:48

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True, I didn't even get into that. Vehicle registration fees, tolls, licencing fees. There's a hell of a lot of money coming in for the government to hold up their hands and say "Sorry, no money!" Well where the hell's it all going?

shortyoh > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 14:51

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I'm a firm believer in the idea that you can always improve, and having driven a fair amount in Germany, I can see needs for improvement and I can see how some of your roads are likely in poor condition.

However, I would GLADLY trade our conditions for yours anyday. That, and if I could trade our drivers for yours, I'd be very happy. Germans, as a whole, are FAR superior drivers to us Americans. :)

shortyoh > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/24/2014 at 15:00

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btw, bent rims and flat tires are often the *nice* way potholes can get your car.

A few years ago, I saw a Corolla hit a pothole on an onramp to I-75 here in Cincinnati. It was actually a reasonably new Corolla (1-4 years old, based on generation)... The pothole didn't just damage the rim. It took the whole tire off. Snapped it right off, along with part of the axle.

Took the state another 2 years to get around to patching that pothole.

ms23 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 15:47

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Dear Mark Linde, did you ever drive abroad for a longer time or tried to live abroad for some years. I've driven all over Eastern, Western and Northern Europe, in the US, Argentina, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana. And my not so superficial impression is that German roads are not-so-bad. Generally larger roads in Switzerland tend to be in a nearly perfect shape, roads in Austria might be a bit better than in Germany. Everything else falls behind.

Some of the problems mentioned are not purly about maintaining roads but expanding them. The A6 mentioned is really terrible - the same applies for large parts of A2, A3, A7, A8, A9 (I hope A1, A4, A5 are OK - I never traveled much un them). The single digit Autobahns are those built (or at least planned) where they were needed at most. Even at sections where they are in good shape these Autobahns are just congested. How long will you take from Sinsheim to Öhringen on a thursday afternoon on the A6? At many sections these Autobahns are itself in a perfect shape but they would need to be enlarged from two to three lanes or from three to four - which is a real challenge in densely populated areas. On some parts they were enlarged from two to three by removing the breakdown lane. This is dangerous and usually causes a speed limit a very low 100km/h (62mph).

So to properly rate the state of German roads you have to look at two fields: Roads that need extension (some need it badly) and state of repair. I currently often travel some sections of the A38 a relatively new Autobahn with nearly no congestion - but some areas already needing repair. There are some areas with a 120km/h (75mph) speed limit. Why? Go faster and it will kill your rims. Keep within (or slightly above) and everything is fine. You wouldn't notice the damage in congested areas with a 100km/h limit...

We Germans are really whining at a high level.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > ms23 05/24/2014 at 16:02

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Everything you wrote is true.

I'm not a professional writer. That's important to emphasise. My text is also not a scientific approach to find the truth.

I was merely trying to convey in a simple and not too long text what is going on here. The government has money, yet the roads are bad. That's all.

Just look at how long your - correct - explanation of the paradox situation is.

If I'd have tried to write the be all and end all about the state of our finances and road network it would be a monster of a scientific text. Please read my text for context and - like you did - think about it for a while. That's what I want to achieve.

Reborn Pyrrhic > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 17:18

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Here in Northern Bavaria I can tell many of the Landstraßen need repaving. There are some that have been repaired on many spots and it's rough riding, especially in my lowered Peugeot (seen in that video).

BPDChief > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 18:22

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Great write up...every time I go to Paderborn area in NRW, I wonder what has happened.. From the A33 to the B-1 to the local roads, it gets progressively "schlimmer" ...jetzt weisse ich was passiert ist....

Goofnik > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/24/2014 at 18:35

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I have a Porsche Cayman GTS coming in September, and for the break-in I was planning to drive through New Hampshire, Maine, and Vermont to accrue those 1800 or so miles <= 4200rpm.

At this point I'm considering taking Vermont off the list.

vc-10 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 18:59

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overstrained like a press car in the hands of Chris Harris

Best simile I've heard in ages!

The roads here in the UK are not in great condition either. We've had a couple of bad winters, which (of course) the councils were woefully under-prepared for, and then the last winter the rain was, frankly, ridiculous. We've got the same problem... but without the balanced budget.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > vc-10 05/24/2014 at 19:36

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Thank you!

The roads seem to be terrible everywhere. So what is the balanced budget actually doing for us car enthusiasts?

I know it's not that simple, but it's important to know that a balanced budget isn't the answer to all the problems of a government/nation/economy/society. Don't believe the hype! :-)

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > BPDChief 05/24/2014 at 19:42

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Thank you!

Yes, it's disturbing how critical the situation is. And I left problems in other areas like education and pensions out of my analysis.

And all this while Germany still is - let us not forget - fairly wealthy in every measurable way. I can't imagine what it's like in for example Greece.

vc-10 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 19:58

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Oh I know- I was just pointing out that Germany is in a somewhat better economic situation than we are at the moment! A balanced budget is not the be-all-and-end-all of good fiscal policy, but it's better than rampant Greek-style debt.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > vc-10 05/24/2014 at 20:00

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Definitely true! Have a star! It's for free so no harm done. ;-)

vc-10 > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 20:06

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Yay!

Yuni Kitadai > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 21:04

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um...the roads here in Japan are perfect, but traffic is not. Can't have it both ways, I guess.

Kevin Rhodes > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/24/2014 at 21:30

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It's the same all over. Here in Maine, the Maine Turnpike/I-95 is kept in very good condition. It's a toll highway for a good chunk of it's length, and the main corridor through the state. But as you get to secondary roads, and then local roads, it all gets worse and worse and worse. We are a physically largeish state with a very small population to pay for all those roads - the size of the rest of New England combined with 1/10th the population. So despite fairly high taxes, it all gets fixed pretty slowly. Want better roads? Be willing to pay more taxes. Very simple. But if a politician proposes raising taxes they might as well be proposing torturing kittens on live TV.

duurtlang > Reborn Pyrrhic 05/25/2014 at 04:52

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I've driven from the North Sea close to Emden to Munich last week, and besides the many Baustellen there wasn't much to complain about. Even the few secondary roads seemed fine to me. While it's not perfect it's equivalent to better than anywhere else. I'll pay extra attention on my way back tomorrow though.

duurtlang > MTY85 05/25/2014 at 05:00

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There's no direct correlation between taxation on vehicles/fuel and infrastructure expenditure/budget. You could argue there should be though, but that's not the current situation. At least it isn't in adjacent the Netherlands.

DoubleDragon > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/25/2014 at 06:13

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China and Germany are two of the worlds GREATEST Creditors. They actually are in the plus in the monies, and have loaned huge sums to other countries as well.

America and some other countries have the worlds greatest Debts, america is in the red big time.

Little known unpublicized fact

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > Kevin Rhodes 05/25/2014 at 06:34

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Yup, true!

Sorry - in case you already read it - for quoting my own reply:

Everything is relative. ;-)

Your road network is 6,506,204km long while 317,000,000 people live in the US. Germany has 80,000,000 citizens and our road network is "just" 644,480 long.

So you have to finance a network that is ten times larger with only four times as many tax payers. And because taxes are a direct way to the hell you know as socialism ;-) , the tributes to your leaders are lower than in Germany.

The results are very obvious when you look at some of the replies here.

DoubleDragon > cabarne4 05/25/2014 at 06:35

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omg now you americans have even less to brag about!! nooooo (not being a dick genuinely symphatizing)

DoubleDragon > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/25/2014 at 06:37

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What do you mean by the last comment. trying to understand. I didnt read a lot of the replies though.

The ratio would come into play somehow but I think gross and net gdp per capita would also come into play here.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > DoubleDragon 05/25/2014 at 06:43

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What "last comment"? This:

The results are very obvious when you look at some of the replies here.

I meant that road damages seem to be worse in the US judging by your comments. That's all.

Pockets > SlowerTrafficKeepRight 05/25/2014 at 07:14

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That doesn't work. People become resentful about getting paid tiny amounts compared to if it was classified as a job and put in less effort, plus it removes potential jobs from the economy as people just go "oh, get an unmployed person to do it".

cabarne4 > DoubleDragon 05/25/2014 at 08:06

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Its absolutely amazing how we can be a super power, yet can't build a road or a decent public transit network. ;)

Seriously, took the train from LA to Arkansas recently. Granted, it's a long way but it took 52 hours! Max speed for most trains here is 80 mph / 130 km/h. And they run on the same rails as freight trains so you always get stuck in traffic behind them. Not to mention delays. One of my trains was almost 2 late, and people were commenting on how early it was this time. Haha

cabarne4 > Dormobile 05/25/2014 at 08:34

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Didn't a bridge collapse in Minneapolis just a few years ago?

MTY85 > duurtlang 05/25/2014 at 10:04

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There most definitely should be. If I pay fuel tax and registration and the government takes that money and gives it to illegal immigrants and then turns around and tells me that there's nothing left to fix the roads I drive on, we have a problem.

stoopit > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 05/25/2014 at 13:58

1

I came from the land where they call strapping sticks to your feet and scraping down boilerplate-encrusted granite "skiing." I get it. VT is not a hospitable place for Bentleys, so they should get Gelandewagen. The right tool for the right tool... I mean job.

emjayay > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/25/2014 at 15:02

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Hey, you started it.

emjayay > Reborn Pyrrhic 05/25/2014 at 15:04

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Well, lowering a car wrecks what the engineers did in the first place. Do something stupid, get stupid results.

emjayay > Dormobile 05/25/2014 at 15:07

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That's what happens when a lot of federal dollars pays for something in a place with a thousandth the population density of all of Germany or some other areas of the US.

Reborn Pyrrhic > emjayay 05/25/2014 at 16:54

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To a certain extent, yes. My car certainly fits that profile, as the previous owner lowered it too much. I really need smooth roads for it. Raising the car to get more suspension travel is on my list of things to do to it.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > emjayay 05/25/2014 at 17:02

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Hehe, yes, I did! :-D

Bs Baldwin > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/25/2014 at 22:20

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Well look at what we did here in the US. We went cheap from the start and kept just using shoestring and gum instead of full repairs.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > stoopit 05/25/2014 at 22:27

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Haha, yup.

Porschephile > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/26/2014 at 04:49

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Great article, Mark.

I don't want to be purposefully contentious but...

Having recently driven the Nuremberg - Munich Autobahn several times and driven quite a bit around the Cologne area (so can't speak for the whole country) the roads seem in a pretty good condition. With the yearly temperature fluctuation those roads see (especially down in Bavaria), they're in a remarkably good state of repair.

Here in SE England (and let's face it, we have had a tiny maximum temp difference of about 30C for the last three years) our roads are, in places, just plain GONE. A road near me, with hundreds of big old houses on it, has become all but impassable for anything without 8 inches of clearance.

As you can claim damages to your car if you can prove the issue was caused by a specific pothole, the local authorities are spending more fixing people's cars than they are on trying to fix the roads!

Our Conservative PM David Cameron has committed £60m to repair the roads, but it's all being spent on Labour-voting areas (there's an election coming!) and I live in one of the safest Conservative areas in the country!

wkiernan > cabarne4 05/26/2014 at 12:25

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According to that AP site Florida has the lowest percentage of deficient bridges of any state in the country! Yay FDOT, WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!!1!

cabarne4 > wkiernan 05/26/2014 at 13:29

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And according to a recent Jalopnik article, Florida google's "Miata" more than any other state!

...Still Florida.

wkiernan > cabarne4 05/26/2014 at 13:41

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We're on a comeback here!

cabarne4 > wkiernan 05/26/2014 at 13:46

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Yeah but all your roads are flat and straight, and it's humid enough to drown while doing simple yard work... I'll take my mountainous, curvy roads any day. :)

GBond > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/26/2014 at 16:19

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Roads

Potholes

DM > Mark - Sixpots None The Richer 05/27/2014 at 02:22

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Roads that bear "Straßenschäden" in Germany would be considered newly paved in most of the world, even Europe. Just drive into Belgium some day.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > MTY85 06/04/2014 at 14:37

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I wrote an article about the financial and political side of the debate. It's difficult to actually follow the money, so I didn't try at all.

But here is the follow-up if you're interested.